Listen, Learn & Love Hosted By Richard Ostler

My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story. Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautiful family love story. Kate offers helpful principles and perspective for parents to love and support their queer children. Kate also talks about her decision to no longer participate in the Church and what we can do to build bridges of understanding between those in the Church and those who have left the Church. Kate is not asking other people to leave the Church—rather, she is suggesting what we can do to bring both parties together as members of the same human family. Morgan, who is wise beyond their years, talks about what gives them hope and shares their advice to queer people who have less more. struggle with those who don't accept their sexuality/gen

My good brother David (author of “Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question”) joins us to talk about his new book which gives readers a gospel-based framework and tools to navigate the increasingly polarized and contentious landscape of modern society. In the podcast, David talks about why he wrote the book, who is the audience, and how he hopes it helps us better come together as the same human family. David talks in a practical way of the skills and approaches to eliminate contention and become peacemakers. If you are feeling tensions of conflict with family, friends, fellow church members—or want to better ministering tools to bring people together, I invite you to read/share David’s book. It is a serious book needed in a divisive time—packed with the latest information from the finest minds, research, and scriptural/church leader insights to help heal our divides. Thank you, Dave, for all your great work in our community to bring us together. Links: Dave’s book on Amazon: https://

My friend Arthur Wiseman (who returned from his successful mission in Gilbert Arizona in Dec of 2023, plans to become a therapist, and returned to live in Arizona) shares his mission experience. Arthur (who knew he was gay since age 6 and planned to tell no one) shares what it was like starting his mission and feeling spiritual promptings (many times during his mission) to open up about being gay because of a desire to help others find hope and Christ in their lives. Arthur talks about a variety of wonderful, spiritual, and sometimes painful experiences only possible because he was open. Arthur talks about developing a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and making Christ the center of his life. He talks about the personal revelation he is receiving. Arthur also talks about how being vulnerable allowed him to be a safe place for his companions to open up about their lives—providing beautiful insights on how to better minister to each other. Arthur talks about his supportive companions and wha

** This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988** Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily with neurodivergent individuals and their families. He is active in the Church, and he and his wife are the parents of four children. Kyle shares his story of first being diagnosed with mental illness as a student, with significant worsening during his medical residency. This is the topic of his first book: “Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness.” He talks about noticing mood disorder symptoms when he was a teenager, but not realizing that he was dealing with mental illness at the time. The cumulative effects of the stress he experienced as a medical student and resident led him to eventually learn that he was living with anxiety a

My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes). Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-20’s and others allowing Jashon to feel authentic and reduce/eliminate shame. It is a brave story of working through suicidal ideation to find hope and peace. Jashon talks about his focus on service to help other marginalized group, future projects and hopes for other queer Filipinos. Jashon concludes with reconciliation with his parents including grace with family members along this journey. Thank you, Jashon, for being on the podcast, writing your book, and sharing your story to give hope to others. You are a good man doing much healing in our world. Glad to have you on the podcast. Links: Jashon’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218917

**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988** My friend Erik Thompson (Age 40, single, active LDS, RM) bravely shares his story with a heart full of desire to give others hope. Erik vulnerable and bravely talks about: Being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 13. Spiritual OCD (Scrupulosity). Porn and masturbation. Coming home from his mission (after a suicide attempt) at 9 months. Need for love and belonging. Becoming sexually active—in unsafe situations—drug use—and more suicidal ideation. Healing words from a senior Church leader including the “Savior is thrilled with you” and returning to Church activity. You are here to love. Upcoming NorthStar Conference. Erik can authentically teach the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal us from pain and to help us repent because Erik has the courage to share his story—helping us all understand that we too can find hope in our story—even the most difficult times of our lives. Part of Erik’s story is on the Ch

My friends Cameo and Cooper Johnson (LDS parents of 4 children, live in Flagstaff AZ, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioners) join us to share their story from the perspective of both LDS parents of a queer daughter (RM, engaged to another RM woman) and their professional work specializing in supporting LDS LGBTQ individuals and families. In the episode, the Johnsons bring unique and helpful perspectives from their experience as parents and also work as mental health practitioners that help all of us. Some of the topics covered by the Johnsons include: 1. Why they are excited and supportive of their daughter’s same-sex marriage. 2. Why they stay members of the Church. 3. What gives them hope and peace for their “eternal family”. 4. What gives them hope for the future of the Church. 5. The difference between core values and core beliefs. 6. How to better see and support families who fit “outside of the idealized version”. 7. The parable of the Good Samaritan. 8. How personal growth often

My friend Nate Miller (grew up in Davis County, lives in Salt Lake County, Philippines RM, U of U graduation, no longer attending church) joins us to share his story. Nate starts with reading a powerful journal entry/letter during his mission that shares his journey (since age 6) of navigating being different and eventually realizing he is gay. Nate is so vulnerable, honest—with a gift of words to share his journey. I was so moved with Nate’s courage to be so honest—which helps us better understand what it is like to be alone figuring out one’s sexual orientation—and gives us insights what we can do to improve our culture to better support our queer friends. Nate talks about finding hope about his future and his family’s unconditional love and support. Nate also talks about advice he would give to his younger self “who was listening five years ago”. Like many of our episodes, I continue to be moved by brave people willing to share their stories out of love to help others find hope in their li

My friend James Smart (RM, age 20, from Rexburg Idaho, Santa Rosa CA missionary, at BYU) joins us to bravely share his story. James starts with reading his powerful and well-written coming out post sharing his story growing up knowing he was different, dealing with shame and associated coping mechanisms, deciding to serve a mission, and finding great healing and hope on his mission. It is a deeply authentic story of being honest, vulnerable, finding God, and finding peace that James is exactly who God created and wants him to be. We then discuss his coming out post and his future. I was so moved listening to James and his courage to be open and his ability to help others find God, remove shame, and find hope in their lives. I was also moved by James spiritual maturity and understanding of core gospel principles to navigate his future. If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, a parent of a queer child, an ally, or a local leader—I encourage you to listen to James’ story and share it with others. T

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Dr. Cameron Staley, Ph.D., who talks about his most recent book: “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.” Cameron is a clinical psychologist who is currently working in private practice. He is an active member of the Church, and he and his wife have 4 children. Cameron talks about his research, discovering that unwanted pornography viewing may be more of a compulsion rather than an addiction. The implications of this led him to create self-directed programs including “Life After Pornography” and the “Life After Pornography Coach” app, based on research supported treatments for reducing compulsive pornography viewing. Cameron talks about how he hopes his book will help shift views around sexuality and its intersection with religion. He also describes his experiences navigating his psychology

**Warning: This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Jacob Guy (RM, age 23, Senior at Weber State, shared his story on Episode 613) joins us to talk about his new book “The Scorpion Unit” a story that Jacob hopes will help people considering suicide. In the podcast, Jacob talks about why he wrote the book, who he hopes will read it, and what how he hopes it will help people. Jacob shares his plans for future books. Jacob also talks about his road as a gay Latter-day Saint, what he is learning, how he is feeling about his future, and how people help him (please listen to Episode 613 for more of his story). I honored to have Jacob back on the podcast to connect listeners with his new book. I encourage everyone to read/share Jacob’s book and consider what we can do to better support our LGBTQ friends and family members. You are a good man, Jacob. So talented. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Jacob’s Book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CWX

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Stacie Proctor, who joins us to talk about her life as a mom, wife, business executive, and active member of the Church, who also lives with bipolar disorder. Stacie was diagnosed in her twenties, when she experienced an episode of psychosis that resulted in her being hospitalized. Stacie describes these events, and others associated with it, that set the stage for a fundamental shift in her worldview and testimony. She gives us a glimpse into what she learned about acceptance of limitations, and ways that this can lead to heightened perspectives and deep peace that would have been unimaginable had she not gone through the frightening experiences surrounding her diagnosis. She talks about a period of time during which she knew she needed to take some space from full activity in the Church, an

My friend Dale Schafer (California Convert, Adelaide Australia ’79-81 RM, Twice Excommunicated, Lives with his husband in Hudson Valley, NY) joins us to share his story his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. Dale starts with his childhood of feeling like an outcast/not belonging because of his sexual attraction to men. Dale talks about his conversation story followed by his desire to serve a mission (good experience). Dale talks about trying to be honest/live with integrity as he did his best to move forward (came out to mom, mission president, BYU counseling center, broke off an engagement, and his bishop). Dale talks about being excommunicated but then rebaptized while at Utah State and then moving to Boston where he stepped away from the Church—but always felt it was his spiritual home. Dale talks about these years including becoming HIV+ and how his testimony kept him alive. Dale talks about finding his husband (been together for over twenty years) and also attending his local LDS branch (positiv

My friend Scott Gover (late 40’s, lives north of London, left church in his 20’s, returned 18 years later, active for last 11 years) joins us to share his story. Scott starts with his growing up years having a deep testimony of the Church and also realizing his was gay. After many unanswered prayers to change his sexual orientation, Scott concluded “I was so evil, that I was beyond God’s love and the atonement” and was going to end up somewhere between “outer darkness and the telestial kingdom.” It’s heartbreaking to hear Scott’s conclusions—which are logical conclusions for a closeted gay Latter-day Saint. Scott talks about eventually leaving the Church for 18 years—even with a testimony of the Church all those years. Scott talks talking to Elder Murdock and Cuche and deeply spiritual experience including Elder Murdock’s testimony that led Scott back into the Church. Scott talks about a disciplinary council (positive experience) that returned him to full fellowship, a Stake that put him to work

This episode is guest-hosted by my friend Steven Kapp Perry from the “In Good Faith” podcast. He interviews John Gustav-Wrathall (a dear friend and mentor) who appeared in an early episode—Episode 49—which we’ll link to below. John shares some of his earliest spiritual experiences, which gave him a solid faith in God, and then describes his journey of listening to and following the clear promptings of the Spirit, even when that inspiration surprised him and was not what he was expecting. That included a life-saving impression to step away from the church for a time, and then, surprisingly, a call to return to it. We’ll also hear how John’s patience in certain painful situations at church later led to growth and change in the very people who had caused that distress. Thanks, John, for your courage to continue to share your story. I learn so much from you. Links: Episode 49: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-49-john-gustav-wrathall-same-sex-marriage-affirmation-executive-director Link to

My friend Jacob Troxel (who recorded this podcast three weeks after his successful mission in Canada Edmonton) joins us to bravely share his experiences as a gay Latter-day Saint and one of the first openly gay missionaries in the Church (which is noted on his Facebook profile). Jacob (who grew up in Camarillo) talks about realizing he might be different around age 12 and then came out to his Bishop and parents at age 16. Jacob talks about how he probably wouldn’t have stayed in the Church without the loving first response from his Bishop. Jacob talks about a powerful spiritual experience where his belief in God shifted from “having a testimony that He doesn’t love someone like me—to God is perfectly loving and loves me.” That is the anchor knowledge that has given Jacob peace as a gay Latter-day Saint and his burning desire to serve a mission so others could know that important gospel truth. Jacob takes us on his mission and shares the both the difficult experiences and the positive ones—ones whe

My friend Lindsey Sais joins us to share her powerful story. Lindsey (early 40s, married for 5 years to her wife Connie, lives in Raleigh NC) joins us to bravely share her story of being divorced at age 23, coming out as gay that same year, working through addiction, being an ex-felon, and suicidal ideation. Lindsey talks about how addiction is not a moral failure—but rather a human reality from taking drugs/alcohol—which often starts to escape pain. Lindsey shares the process she took (along with God’s help) to become sober on Feb 13, 2013—it is a moving story that gives hope to others. Lindsey talks about how Christ’s love/atonement is not earned—it is just there for all of us—and how she accesses that love in her darkest days to feel hope and healing. Lindsey shared many lessons, perspectives, and insights for those in dark places to find a way forward—and the positive role of her parents on this long road. Lindsey talks about finding her soulmate in her wife Connie and how that relationship

My friends Josh and Jen Rollins (married for 26 years, parents of 5, live in Riverton Utah, active LDS) share their story of their middle child Aiden coming out as gay, then their oldest children Jace coming out as gay and later transgender, and then their second-oldest Chelsea coming out as bisexual. Josh (who was serving as Bishop during much of this time) and Jen share how their family went from fitting the perfect Latter-day Saint mold to where they are today—a beautiful family united in their love for each other and creating space for the lived experiences of each family member. Jen and Josh are honest that their journey has been difficult as their LGBTQ kids didn’t find it possible to find a place in the Church—and how they needed to reconstruct their hopes/dreams. Jen and Josh talk about their constant reliance of prayer and direction from Heavenly Parents. Jen and Josh talk about how having LGBTQ kids isn’t a “trial”—because their kids are great human beings doing much good in the world—t

My friend Lily Prisbrey—who recently returned from both a proselyting mission (Philippines) and a service mission (Utah). She joins us to give her farewell talk. In this talk, Lily bravely talks about: Her journey with scrupulosity and faith-related guilt. Finding a loving, accepting, and NOT “ever-disappointed” God. Finding God in the Filipino people. Finding God through a Mission President who listened to doubts without judging and supported Lily’s decision to end her proselyting mission early. Finding God through failure. Inviting others to serve missions who don’t fit the mold. Lily concludes her talk with her powerful testimony of a loving God with 1 John 4: “God is love” and these words: “I am not a black and white, fit the mold, perfect kind of person. But I served as a missionary—and I hope that through what I’ve shared today—you all can see that if I can be a missionary, you can too”. We conclude with a discussion about her talk. Lily brings powerful insights into how to help everyone

My friend Zak Hazlett (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from BYU) joins us from his home in Moab, Utah to talk about his life mission to bring more kindness, love, understanding into our community. Zak (who grew up running rivers in Southern Utah) talks about merging this love of the outdoors and his desire to help others into a career as a therapist and relationship coach—which is captured in his fast-growing Instagram Account called @the_outdoor_therapist. In the podcast, Zak talks about how to better love and accept ourselves, love others, learn to forgive ourselves/others, find hope/healing and be a better people. Zak also talks about working as a student therapist in the BYU Comprehensive Clinic—where he had many visits with queer BYU students. He talks about what he learned, how to better listen, how we don’t always have the answer, how his heart changed, and how he loves this group of people. I was deeply moved listening to Zak—his great heart—his work—and his ability to communic